You're all being overcritical of the boy and his family here. The truth is the school and the cops should be penalized. . Here's how this works: lawyers always ask for the moon in these cases: it's just for PR purposes. Nobody expects them to get more than a fraction of that.
Either the school and city will settle out of court for an "undisclosed sum" to avoid the headache of a trial, or they'll be eventully be awarded fifty grand and their legal fees.
The problem is if they get any money it'll encourage people to force these situations. Some foreign kid takes in a backpack full of wires and dismantled clock into their school (after all that's all this kid did, he didn't build anything clever, just took apart a clock and stuffed it in a box)
Actually, the school and the cops handled it very badly. Illegally as it happens. They'll either settle or slug it out, and either way perhaps they'll be more professional next time.
Oliver Hamilton said: The problem is if they get any money it'll encourage people to force these situations.
Let the courts decide. That's their job, not yours or mine.
Some foreign kid takes in a backpack full of wires and dismantled clock into their school (after all that's all this kid did, he didn't build anything clever, just took apart a clock and stuffed it in a box)
"Some foreign kid".
Wow.
In other words, he did nothing illegal. The fact that it wasn't a work of engineering genius is irrelevant. That being the case, how did that justify the illegal response he received? Had a white American kid had done the same, would you feel that he received fair treatment?
You need to think this through. Take race and nationality out of the equation and apply the same metrics. See what answer you get.
James Karaganis you clearly missed the point I was making. The "Some foreign kid" reference was to the fact it was racially motivated and probably wouldn't happen to a white kid.
Jordan Henderson: One weird notion of American jurisprudence is "punitive damages". It's just like "sending a message", except for the reverse power relation.
James Karaganis The school and police did not follow bomb threat protocols with the situation. It also appears they did not follow correct arrest/detainment procedures for a minor, keeping him from contacting parents for many hours. Now, $15M? Yeah, that's not gonna happen but it will hopefully push that town/school board to try and act more professional in future.
James Karaganis said, ". . . the fact it was racially motivated and probably wouldn't happen to a white kid."
You want to bet? A white kid would probably be expelled for bringing something to school that either looks like a bomb or something that can easily be made into a bomb.
A white kid was suspended for making his pop-tart into the shape of a gun and then pointing it at someone. Ahmed was not suspended. True, he suffered an indignity, but I think they were comparable indignities.
David Lazarus: Er, you're missing the part of the point where evidence demonstrates that the indignators were not worried of a bomb and just used it as a pretext to humiliate a brown kid playing with white kids' toys such as electronics.
My evidence? Look at all of the stupid shit that students, regardless of race, get suspended for these days. You can't even make the shape of a gun with your fingers without getting suspended. Heaven forbid a kid wears a TMNT shirt depicting their ninja weapons to school. Want to wear an arrowhead necklace to school? You better think again!
What Zephyr López Cervilla said. That would be the smart thing. If it's found to be benign, no harm no fowl as long as the kids isn't bragging about how he's going to use it to make a bomb.
David Lazarus: Then, you might want to explain it, although I find it generally more useful to explain the past by analysing the past rather than trying to predict the future arguments.
Due to a small but consistent influx of spam, comments will now be checked before publishing. Only egregious spam/illegal/racist crap will be disapproved, everything else will be published.
....aaaand all respect is lost.
ReplyDeleteYeah, pretty much.
ReplyDeleteScholarships weren't enough. Assholes.
ReplyDeletePretty much standard american behaviour, i assume. That capitalism, stupid.
ReplyDeleteYou're all being overcritical of the boy and his family here. The truth is the school and the cops should be penalized.
ReplyDelete.
Here's how this works: lawyers always ask for the moon in these cases: it's just for PR purposes. Nobody expects them to get more than a fraction of that.
Either the school and city will settle out of court for an "undisclosed sum" to avoid the headache of a trial, or they'll be eventully be awarded fifty grand and their legal fees.
The problem is if they get any money it'll encourage people to force these situations.
ReplyDeleteSome foreign kid takes in a backpack full of wires and dismantled clock into their school (after all that's all this kid did, he didn't build anything clever, just took apart a clock and stuffed it in a box)
James Karaganis I don't think he's owed anything at all.
ReplyDeleteIt has always looked like a stunt and this is just further evidence.
Actually, the school and the cops handled it very badly. Illegally as it happens. They'll either settle or slug it out, and either way perhaps they'll be more professional next time.
ReplyDeleteOliver Hamilton said: The problem is if they get any money it'll encourage people to force these situations.
ReplyDeleteLet the courts decide. That's their job, not yours or mine.
Some foreign kid takes in a backpack full of wires and dismantled clock into their school (after all that's all this kid did, he didn't build anything clever, just took apart a clock and stuffed it in a box)
"Some foreign kid".
Wow.
In other words, he did nothing illegal. The fact that it wasn't a work of engineering genius is irrelevant. That being the case, how did that justify the illegal response he received? Had a white American kid had done the same, would you feel that he received fair treatment?
You need to think this through. Take race and nationality out of the equation and apply the same metrics. See what answer you get.
James Karaganis you clearly missed the point I was making. The "Some foreign kid" reference was to the fact it was racially motivated and probably wouldn't happen to a white kid.
ReplyDeleteJames Karaganis Possibly, but where are the damages here?
ReplyDeleteSuing people is the American Way. If he would forgive, his bullies would be right that he isn't a True American. So, #Catch22.
ReplyDeleteOliver Hamilton: Good. Eventually, police will decide that it's cheaper to train its people better than to keep paying out settlements.
ReplyDeleteJordan Henderson: One weird notion of American jurisprudence is "punitive damages". It's just like "sending a message", except for the reverse power relation.
ReplyDeleteJames Karaganis The school and police did not follow bomb threat protocols with the situation. It also appears they did not follow correct arrest/detainment procedures for a minor, keeping him from contacting parents for many hours. Now, $15M? Yeah, that's not gonna happen but it will hopefully push that town/school board to try and act more professional in future.
ReplyDeleteGilmoure T. Precisely.
ReplyDeleteOliver Hamilton Clearly I did, but to be honest it wasn't clear.
ReplyDelete"Ahmed and his family have since moved to Qatar to complete his education."
ReplyDeleteSmart move. Alas, he will probably also receive terrorist training. 😕
James Karaganis said, ". . . the fact it was racially motivated and probably wouldn't happen to a white kid."
ReplyDeleteYou want to bet? A white kid would probably be expelled for bringing something to school that either looks like a bomb or something that can easily be made into a bomb.
A white kid was suspended for making his pop-tart into the shape of a gun and then pointing it at someone. Ahmed was not suspended. True, he suffered an indignity, but I think they were comparable indignities.
ReplyDeleteDavid Lazarus: Er, you're missing the part of the point where evidence demonstrates that the indignators were not worried of a bomb and just used it as a pretext to humiliate a brown kid playing with white kids' toys such as electronics.
ReplyDeleteThis kid is caucasoid, therefore "white":
ReplyDeleteen.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Ethnic_groups
Zephyr López Cervilla: You used "therefore" in a race analysis. This is not how racism works.
ReplyDeleteMuting thread. Y'all play nicely now.
ReplyDeleteAndres Soolo - Let's just say that, though it could be true, I disagree.
ReplyDeleteDavid Lazarus: What's your evidentiary basis for disagreement?
ReplyDeleteMy evidence? Look at all of the stupid shit that students, regardless of race, get suspended for these days. You can't even make the shape of a gun with your fingers without getting suspended. Heaven forbid a kid wears a TMNT shirt depicting their ninja weapons to school. Want to wear an arrowhead necklace to school? You better think again!
ReplyDeleteDavid Lazarus: What would you expect a school to do if it believes there's a bomb in it?
ReplyDeleteEvacuate the school and request the intervention of the bomb disposal experts?
ReplyDeleteWhat Zephyr López Cervilla said. That would be the smart thing. If it's found to be benign, no harm no fowl as long as the kids isn't bragging about how he's going to use it to make a bomb.
ReplyDeleteAnd did this happen?
ReplyDeleteI sense a bit of circular reasoning coming.
ReplyDeleteDavid Lazarus: Then, you might want to explain it, although I find it generally more useful to explain the past by analysing the past rather than trying to predict the future arguments.
ReplyDelete