How come when one applies the "criminals don't follow gun laws" nonsense to other topics, other laws, it sounds completely STUPID and DEVOID OF LOGIC and JUSTICE?
"Speeders don't follow speed limits. Only law abiding drivers follow speed limits. And there is just no evidence that speed limits prevent speeding."
"Tax evaders don't follow the tax code. Only law abiding tax payers pay taxes. And there is just no evidence that tax laws prevent tax evasion."
"Dog owners don't follow the 'pooper scooper laws'. Only well trained dogs and responsible dog owners follow 'pooper scooper laws'. And there is just no evidence that 'pooper scooper laws' prevent puppy poo."
"Republicans don't say anything truthful. Only scientifically literate Democrats even attempt to stay in the realm of logic and reason. There is zero evidence that the Code of Official Conduct of Congress prevents Marco Rubio from reiterating utterly stupid stuff."
None of those laws prevent people from engaging in the unwanted behavior, they simply provide a mechanism for punishing them when they do step out of line.
ReplyDeleteGun laws are sold as preventing gun violence.
See the flaw in the logic?
" None of those laws prevent people from engaging in the unwanted behavior, they simply provide a mechanism for punishing them when they do step out of line."
ReplyDeleteWhich prevents them from breaking the law in the first place.
So people don't get speeding tickets?
ReplyDeleteOf course they do. But average speeds are lower than if there weren't any speeding limits. People try to avoid getting tickets.
ReplyDeleteRight. Speeding tickets don't prevent speeding, and they don't keep people who are inclined to from driving dangerously fast.
ReplyDeleteThey are advisory, as much as anything else, and most people take the advice.
There are gun laws that act similarly. Laws against brandishing fall into that category, as would laws advising reasonable safe handling practices (secure holsters, unloaded carry/no round chambered, pretty much all the NRA safety rules). These laws should be on the books everywhere, yet they are rarely proposed.
Laws based on cosmetics ("assault rifles") and peripheral functionality (clip sizes) can't possibly have any statistically significant effect, because they are tweaking variables that don't matter. Yet those are the sorts of laws that are proposed all the time.
"Right. Speeding tickets don't prevent speeding, and they don't keep people who are inclined to from driving dangerously fast."
ReplyDeleteI simply completely and utterly disagree with that.
My commute is only 10 minutes, and I see at least one of these jokers a week. Speed laws do not stop people from driving unsafely fast, by my personal observation. They just try to do it where they won't get caught.
ReplyDeleteWell an unenforced law scarcely counts as a law. But "prevent" in no way implies, "with 100% success" in my view. It needs a statistical approach - i.e., far more people will stick to the speed limit if there's a credible threat of a fine for exceeding it. That some do not in no way whatsoever invalidates the need for a law.
ReplyDeleteAs long as the law is in line with observable safe practices it does work quite well.
ReplyDeletePeople don't usually get pulled over for speeding through curves that have posted speeds, but people do slow down for them.
Good gun laws can be that way.
Laws that are obviously contrary to any sort of observed logic get widely ignored, and even deliberately violated just for the sake of it (see how hard it is to download a recent movie illegally for an example of this one).
Gun laws can be that way, too.
I'm not opposed to gun legislation in general, I just think that laws for the sake of having a law can be counterproductive.
Criminals don't follow anti-secure-encryption laws. Only law-abiding people follow anti-secure-encryption laws. And there is just no evidence that these anti-secure-encryption laws would prevent terrorism.
ReplyDeleteDammit, that one makes sense.
Shame our Conservatives don't agree.
"Laws that are obviously contrary to any sort of observed logic get widely ignored, and even deliberately violated just for the sake of it"
ReplyDeleteThat's just saying that bad laws are bad, which is tautologous.
Similarly the "logic" of certain Republicans appears to be that if you outlaw the catapults only the outlaws will have catapults. Which is also obvious, and completely misses the point that sensible, properly-enforced laws do actually work.
There is really an overwhelming amount of evidence that if you have proper gun control you have fewer mass shootings. I would even say it's self-evident.