Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has told the BBC that Holyrood could try to block the UK's exit from the EU. She was speaking following a referendum on Thursday which saw Britain vote by 52% to 48% to leave Europe. However, in Scotland the picture was different with 62% backing Remain and 38% wanting to go. SNP leader Ms Sturgeon said that "of course" she would ask MSPs to refuse to give their "legislative consent".
This wouldn't help. Scotland vetos Brexit => support for SNP surges => Scotland becomes independent => England and Wales exit. Thus, no change in the current situation.
Oh what a tangled web we weave...
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
Scottish and other MPs prevent activation of Article 50 by Parliament => End of bloody stupid idea.
ReplyDeleteRhys Taylor
ReplyDeleteDon't you think it is in the best interest of British people to leave EU?
Patrick Johnson No, I do not.
ReplyDeletehttp://astrorhysy.blogspot.cz/2016/06/are-there-hats.html
Rhys Taylor Nice link. I am a fan of Butler Yeats' The Second Coming poem. ''Things fall apart, the center cannot hold...'', is my favourite part.
ReplyDeleteHowever, people don't also see how the Remain could have harmed the Brits interest as the bureaucracy of the union is becoming disturbing while looking at nations like Greece, Portugal, etc bailout which almost become the responsibility of the EU founding members and UK having relatively little say in the affairs.
I think UK more or less a non-important member of the union needs to do something and take control of their future perhaps, this referendum.
Patrick Johnson No, it very clearly and obviously is not in our interests to leave the EU. I think, if you look into the things that will happen, if we did, you would think the same. Look beyond all the slogans. You keep repeating this mantra about us having no say in EU affairs. We were on the winning side of almost every vote in the EU parliament. That's NOT a lack of control.
ReplyDeletePatrick Johnson No, we're not a puppet, though instead of voting in people who would give us a real voice we keep voting in UKIP MEPs intent on bringing down the system. Yet the EU is a democratic, elected, accountable body, and we are no more a puppet than France or Germany. We certainly aren't especially subject to EU diktats because we pay in a lot of money. Rather the reverse, we spend a lot of time negotiating special exemptions.
ReplyDeleteThe EU is sometimes overbearing and over-bureaucratic, but I see no problems with it that cannot be fixed by reforming the system rather than leaving it. The benefits is provides are almost immeasurably greater than any problems it causes. As a scientist, there is simply no way in hell I would ever support leaving.
http://astrorhysy.blogspot.cz/2016/05/i-quite-like-eu-lets-keep-it.html
It is simply an objective fact that Brexit would cause severe harm. We are already seeing this through the hit to the economy, the risk of the UK breaking up, the job losses of London bankers, and the rise in popularity of racists like Nigel Farage.
Patrick Johnson Well, of course we pay in more than Malta. Your point is?
ReplyDeleteRhys Taylor I quite understand your points. I don't mean to use the word puppet to describe UK relationship with EU. So I decide to remove it from my previous post.
ReplyDeleteMy argument is that UK contributes more than it gets from the union doesn't make sense. That by definition means there is something wrong with control of affairs with the EU membership. It doesn't really speak well of British representatives.
Even on education and research and development(possibly the areas you are so much concerned about as a scientist) the UK is appropriated less funding by EU. Those things need to be addressed properly if the common interest exercised by all member countries has to continue.
I agree UK faces economic troubles in the months to come because of the union aggressive intention to make it suffer for leaving the union and that supposed not to be so as a European nation. The Brexit breaking up UK cannot be factually predicted as there were handful of Scots who voted to leave as well. Let's hope that doesn't happen.
On the final note, UK by region is in Europe and has always been on the forefront for the good of the continent .
"We are breaking apart when we should be standing together. I hope that somehow, in defiance of all the evidence, I'm wrong about this, but right now I'm seeing precious little cause for optimism about the future."
ReplyDeleteGiven the calamity of England's own goal, perhaps they should stand alone. The Union was an accident of history, anyway: 1706, the Acts of Union and all that. With a name like Rhys, I would be preaching to the choir to tell you Edward Longshanks' castles speak to how Wales came aboard, Owen Glendower and the shoddy treatment Wales got ever after.
Those whom the gods would destroy, to them do they grant wishes.
Chris Blackmore My point is less is given to UK that contributes more.
ReplyDeletePatrick Johnson
ReplyDeleteEven on education and research and development(possibly the areas you are some much concerned about as a scientist) the UK is appropriated less funding by EU.
That is not the case.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35668682
The Brexit breaking up UK cannot be factually predicted as there were handful of Scots who voted to leave as well. Let's hope that doesn't happen.
That is a nonsense. A handful of Scots who voted to leave does not undermine the importance of the great majority of Scots who voted to stay. There have already been calls for a second referendum if Britain leaves the EU and Northern Ireland is also making noises. Of course no-one can predict the future with 100% accuracy but is obvious to anyone that Scotland is moving increasingly towards a preference for independence.
Yes, the EU's direct cost is high, but it isn't that high. £8 billion is just over 1% of our annual expenditure, never mind the indirect beenfits enabled by EU membership that feed back into our economy. Trade alone is worth tens of billions. Science, frankly, has benefits that cannot even be calculated.
Patrick Johnson Speaking as someone whose market positions (on US and Japanese markets) have lost over 14,000 USD ( no idea what that translates to in GBP as the pound sterling is still outgassing as we speak) as a consequence of the Leave vote, allow me to make a few points, will you?
ReplyDeleteMore capital has evaporated out of UK markets in the wake of this madness than the UK ever paid into the EU, even if we take Farage's porkies at face value. The reckoning on world markets is at present incalculable. Nikkei went limit down.
From every conceivable viewpoint, domestic markets, international markets, education, science, defence, the list is very long -, the Leave vote was an attempt to cure dandruff by decapitation.
Rhys Taylor It is in the second position after Germany despite having the best universities in Europe.
ReplyDeletehttps://fullfact.org/education/how-much-money-do-british-universities-get-eu/
Let's be clear, leaving EU never cut those benefits from trade with member states.
Dan Weese Those are the expectations though. Market volatility is based on many factors and one of them is fear-mongering, which, EU threats have been able to achieve in this case. What I am saying is that if there were no threats and unnecessary fear-mongering the market could have remained normal as days before the Brexit.
ReplyDeleteI am arguably not in support of both camps. I am trying to let's look into reasons why those who voted to leave did so. They have reasons which I think make sense and should be respected.
Patrick Johnson Let's try another tack, here. I've just lost a significant sum of money. Tell me why I shouldn't think the English have made a dog's breakfast, not only of their own economy, but the world economy.
ReplyDeleteMany factors, indeed. Here's one: the English are parochial, self-absorbed gits, right down to their bones, incapable of understanding, much less caring about the damage they've done to a wider world, including myself.
Patrick Johnson Here's a minority view (mine).
ReplyDeleteTLDR: The money doesn't matter (that much)
I'm perfectly content with the idea that Britain contributes more to the EU, in sum total, than it receives (as pure hard cash).
The UK is a rather rich country - by many metrics. It can afford a few% of GDP to help lift up poorer states - and I recognize that there is poverty in the UK (I'm from darkest Yorkshire).
At an early age it struck me that a group of friends is more robust and less likely to fight when the weak are supported by the strong. The cash return from the EU is outweighed by the cultural benefits that accrue - these have no calculable value.
I thoroughly enjoyed living in the Netherlands as a European, paying Dutch taxes, and working on projects at ESTEC that were funded by all the participating states of ESA. Yes, there is always inefficiency, and the paperwork can be mind-numbing, but being outside the system guarantees no influence.
This referendum was an exercise in watching what happens when a sugared-up crowd is cajoled and lied to, and then given handguns.
James Garry I completely disagree with some of your points. There is nothing wrong if UK became more prosperous as Singapore with very few poor people. Canada and Australia are successful free market economies outside of EU. They make deals with EU and UK as a member goods have to be taxed. You have to look into the bureaucracies the people don't want to continue with. It is time to accept the result and move on, as I always say here.
ReplyDeleteThere are people from countries not in EU enjoying Netherlands as much as you do, like the Americans and even with edges.
Nothing affects culture and there will always be cultural exchanges between Britain and its neighbours.
Remove fear from the debate and you would understand this could be in the best interest of UK.
Patrick Johnson
ReplyDelete"Remove fear from the debate ..."
Well, my brother in law, last week, was likened to a Hitler Youth member, for having said that he had enjoyed living and working in Germany.
(quite ironic, as my bro-in-law's mother survived a concentration camp in the last war)
And a neighbour of his has had hate mail for having a 'Remain' poster in their window.
This was on a reasonably well-to-do street in Lancaster.
Fear appears to be at the root of many people's decision to leave. And I find that to be a sad state of affairs.
>"... like the Americans and even with edges."
Not quite sure what you mean there.
(static on the line perhaps?)
James Garry That's possibly an angry neighbour with little understanding of diverse views. Somebody like that is always present in every community and you shouldn't let him deter you from airing your views but with care in tough times as the Brexit.
ReplyDeletePointing to the last part of your post, I mean edges as in incisive qualities.