Sister blog of Physicists of the Caribbean in which I babble about non-astronomy stuff, because everyone needs a hobby

Wednesday 4 July 2018

"The Aztecs believed in moderation", says ludicrously ignorant person

(Excuse me while I rant about this silly essay)

The moral philosophy of the Aztecs. Now, hypocrisy doesn't invalidate the ideas and all that, but could we please mention the sacrifices ? Just a little bit ? You know, all the stuff they did with ripping people's hearts out and wearing their bloodied skins inside out ? I mean, I'd also like to hear about their laws preventing generosity and sharing, but more importantly, IT'S THE FREAKIN' AZTECS. Not mentioning all the sacrifices in an article about morality is just bwuhooowhooouh (technical term).

Also, the author presents Greek ideas about morality flowing from individuals rather than society in a strange and at times absurdly simplistic way. Plato spent a fair chunk of time thinking on the ideal society in which to live which very explicitly has moral behaviour, if not morality itself, as a social construct.

If being good requires exceptional traits, such as practical intelligence, then many people would be excluded – such as those with cognitive disabilities. That does not seem right. One of the advantages of the Aztec view, then, is that it avoids this outcome by casting virtue as a cooperative, rather than an individual, endeavour.

I dunno, lots of people do seem to be pretty dang awful. Pretty much the entirety of the Republican party, so far as I can tell. Then again, a cooperative endeavour in no way whatsoever guarantees greater morality. Rather it tends to promote whatever systemtic thinking is popular. So lots of people could be jerks just because they're innately jerks or because everyone is making them behave like jerks. Seems to me they're probably naturally somewhat neutral if left alone and group behaviour can swing the majority one way or the other (the, ahem, FRICKIN' MASS SACRIFICES being a case in point). With interesting exceptions, mind you.

The Aztecs did not believe there was any conceptual link between leading our best lives on the one hand, and experiencing pleasure or ‘happiness’ on the other. This image of the virtuous man finds its closest Greek analogue in the Iliad’s Hector, the person to whom everyone flocked for refuge, the one who supported his whole house, but was nevertheless undone by Achilles.

Errr, also large chunks of Plato (both in negative and positive terms; e.g. Callicles is a total dick : https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RhysTaylorRhysy/posts/iYSyn7zywh3; whereas in huge amounts of other dialogues justice and pleasure being the same are discussed in much more positive ways).

The Aztecs held, in short, that it’s unrealistic to think that anyone can lead a perfectly good life, one in which you never slip up. A better goal, then, is to try to lead a rooted life, which they called neltiliztli: literally, rootedness. In this kind of life, one is able to manage the mistakes and slip-ups well, rather than avoid them altogether. The reward is not happiness necessarily, but the promise of a worthwhile life.

The Aztec’s answer is that virtuous actions follow the middle path, they strike the mean.

Again, Platonic. Also.... FRICKIN' BLOOD SACRIFICES ! How are these the middle ground ? Mwwwaaaaaaarrrghhh.

As the passage suggests, the mean or middle way (tlanepantla) is not so much an exact middle of something as it is a metaphor for the apt expression of a choice, action or feeling. In other passages, the middle choice is the one that represents the right form of dress, with clothes that are neither too shabby, nor too formal.

Sooo.... wearing your enemies skin inside out is nicely in the middle, is it ? Not too shabby, those bloodied human skins, eh ? Not too formal either ? Lovely.

The Aztecs, by contrast, thought that practical reason was best exercised in groups – and one finds evidence for this everywhere, from the merchant rites, to the choice of school for children, to the decisions of the king himself. Moreover, the Aztecs weren’t democratic about the matter. Rather than weigh all advice evenly, they gave greater weight in the deliberative process to those with the most practical experience (ixtlamatiliztli), who were often the elderly.

OK, that's a more interesting contrast of Greek ideals, where group behaviour is used to promote morality but ultimately can be judged by some absolute standard. Nevertheless it ends up with interesting parallels to the Greek ideals of having experts determine what is ethical. Stands in stark contrast to the notion that morality is a group effort if you give greater weight to some people than others though. At the extreme, both systems converge to the same ideal of a single super-awesome individual who learns perfect ethics. Doesn't really matter if morality is relative or absolute.

Even the assessment of ‘the middle way’ remains a collective rather than personal effort, since it was believed that practical wisdom worked best in groups that placed a high value on the opinions of the most experienced members. The Aztecs thought all this because they believed that we humans lead lives on the slippery earth (tlaticpac). The best guard we have against this eventuality, then, is each other.

Yes, because that worked out so well for them. Did I mention the FRICKIN' BLOOD SACRIFICES ? I think I did.

https://aeon.co/essays/aztec-moral-philosophy-didnt-expect-anyone-to-be-a-saint

6 comments:

  1. ... several minutes later, and I'm still unable to cope with the whole mad lunacy of the thing. The author wants to promote using social groups as a means of encouraging morality, and the historical example they've chosen is... the Aztecs.

    THE AZTECS !!!

    I mean GBWHBLAHBLAH. That's just a new level of crazy. How is this person a professor ??? Never even mind the portrayal of the Greeks here, the whole idea is batshit insane.

    [Rhys' head assplodes]

    ReplyDelete
  2. After wading through this interminable novel I have learned and understood all that I ever would want to know about Aztecs. FRICKIN’ BLOOD SACRIFICES is only one significant barbaric part of their lives. That author studied for years Aztec history and culture to immerse himself and create historical fiction. I doubt you’ll want to know even more of their social history. Aargh.
    en.wikipedia.org - Aztec (novel) - Wikipedia

    ReplyDelete
  3. Unfortunately, I already do. Read a couple of what were basically textbooks on them a while back... the premise here is like making a case for one-man rule and taking Vlad the Impaler as an example.

    ReplyDelete
  4. That book I read was only read as a favor to a friend who was impressed with it and really wanted me to read it. To go through about 700 pages of brutality and horror, with not one character you could admire or relate to - that was most depressing to me. And then realizing this historical fiction was likely close enough to the daily life of those times, well that cured me forever of more curiosity about Maya, Inca, and other empires.

    And as a matter of record, I find less and less of ancient history to be emulating in these modern times. It may be interesting but certainly not a way to find spiritual, moral or ethical guidelines.

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  5. Yeah, much of the past is interesting only as a good guide to what not to do.

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  6. Rhys Taylor good thing neither of us are super fans of modern organized religions that base one’s “salvation” on study of scriptures and memoirs from a few thousand suggestions dating back many centuries ago.

    ReplyDelete

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